The following story is not meant to be fact, however some aspects of it are inspired from real life stories. I am aware of the hadith about lying even out of joke. Please keep that in mind and consider the following only as a fictional story.
I was walking outside of the house as I gazed at the sky and as always praised God. My heart was constricted for the past few months, and I have never experienced such doubts before. I can't sleep, I can't eat. Nothing else makes sense. Nothing else. Everyone is against me, all my old friends hate me for becoming Muslim, my family hates me for abandoning Christianity. Why do they? Only cause I worship God and God alone? I walk down by the river and look at the flowing water. It is so dark. I can't see anything in it. I gaze at the sky again as in looking for a sign. What should I do? I hate drinking, I hate the bars, I hate this life style, and I can't believe that people call themselves good Christians and live like this. Did I do a mistake becoming Muslim? Should have I stayed Christian? Should I just give my sins free fall and just say that Jesus died for them? A fast thought crosses my mind as a flash: maybe I am wrong. Maybe I should just be like the water and go with the flow. Why am I trying to swim against the flow? Everyone seems to move that way. My heart skips a beat and I feel like my throat is itching.
Jesus is God I said. I can't believe it but I said it. Did I just exit Islam? What should I do next? Should I go to a club? Pick up a girl? Tell my family, they would surely love it. It was the night before that I was at the threshold of my doubts. And I still can't explain where these doubts are coming from. But it's ok now. For the first time in months my heart feels better. It's like I don't care anymore. I was brought up this way anyhow, why am I trying to swim against the flow. As I walk down the street I think of all the things that I can do now that I'm free. And all of a sudden I realize that it's for real: I just gave up Islam, and I don't really know for what, but I'm tired of swimming against the flow. 10 years of my live in Islam, and here I am back where I came from, returning home. I feel careless, I feel good.
As I'm sitting on the beach observing the tides dying on the shore, beating on the sand, while little children try to catch them with so much hope, I loose myself in remembering my life before Islam. I almost want to erase the 10 years that have passed. My thoughts are shattered by looking at the children again. Even though they can't catch the waves they still try, and every time they fail, they get up again and go for it with new hopes as if they are just starting. I stand up and pick up my blanket and walk towards the street. I gaze at the sky as usually and my eyesight leaves me for a split second. My heart begins to pound, and my body begins to shake. The children with new hopes as if they are just starting. My throat is dry and my lips are chapped. All of a sudden as if I have never heard it in my life, the call to prayer resounds from the minaret of the mosque. God is Greater, God is Greater. I bear witness that there no God but God. My feel begin moving under me, and make a 180 turn and head straight for the water. It's as if I have no control over them, and why would I want to control them, I know exactly where they are taking me. The intention runs deep in my veins. In seconds I'm in and out, all wet, heading towards the call. I go up the stairs as water is still liking from my body. I join the row and as if being placed in paradise I put my forehead to the ground with the brothers and I sit and while raising my index finger I say LA ILAHA IL ALLAH.
What just happened? Was it a dream. I gaze at the sky again and it's as clear as always. LA ILAHA IL ALALH. It was always this one statement that made more sense than anything in my life. LA ILAHA IL ALLAH the only thing worth living for. I feel like a child trying to catch a wave, I almost want to go back across the street to join them in catching one. I'll give them hope at least. What a thought? Let's do it! I can see them from here. I rush across the street while the sun is beating me from behind, and then no more. I can't feel the sun anymore, I can't see the children anymore, and slowly the sounds are fading away. I feel tired, yet I feel very relaxed. There is no pain. A car's horn is resounding in the background and slowly fading away, but it does not bother me. It looks like an accident, I hope that person is ok. Why can't I move? Where are the children? Where is the sun? I can't hear anything. My heart is slowly fading away, and with a last breath: LA ILAHA IL ALLAH, MUHAMMADAN RASUL ALLAH.
Thursday, October 22, 2009
If it's not the time, it is not the time.
"Say: 'Nothing will happen to us except what God has decreed for us: He is our protector': and on God let the Believers put their trust. (The Noble Quran, 9:51)"
I remember hearing someone talking about a baby surviving a plane crash and I was a bit reluctant to believe it, but subhan Allah how can we denny that it is only Allah swt who causes death, and if it's not the time that was decreed for that person, it will not happen.
I remember hearing someone talking about a baby surviving a plane crash and I was a bit reluctant to believe it, but subhan Allah how can we denny that it is only Allah swt who causes death, and if it's not the time that was decreed for that person, it will not happen.
Wednesday, October 14, 2009
Will Justice Prevail? This is a test for America's Ideology, or Hypocrisy.
The Question comes up: For what did so many people die? And everyone brushes it aside. But it seems that Allah will always bring justice be it with Muslims or non Muslims.
Friday, October 9, 2009
Thursday, October 8, 2009
Apostasy? part 2
***
-I understand of this, that Islamic religion (which is the same with the Islamic state) allows executions for apostasy, as being a command of God.
That is exactly what we have to understand. Once God decides something to question His decision based on our emotional attitude towards His rulings it is a contradiction. Once God establishes something there is not room for questioning it, so your problem is not really the issue of apostasy but the issue that you do not believe in God’s law, which Jesus upheld when he said in Matt 5
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
So your problem is not with the law, but with obeying it. I do have one question. You do agree with the law in Deut 13 about the apostates and the killing of them? My question and my proof here is not to debate you over what Christianity as a doctrine or your personal understanding of Christianity says, but over what you believe to be the text and word of God, and regardless of what I believe of the Bible (and that would require hours of discussion). By divine Justice the Christians do not even follow the proofs from their book. Going back to Deut 13 please do answer me if you believe that God revealed it or not? By divine Justice it is still there to show that God at one point did reveal this and no matter how you want to go around this with appeals to emotion, calling Islam evil and intolerant and narrow and not allowing freedom of faith, I GO BACK TO MY ORIGINAL POINT I MADE IN MY FIRST E MAIL WHICH YOU IGNORED: The God you believe in (with Jesus being part of Him at the time this law was passed) was I guess according to your analogy and rational a intolerant and lacking freedom of faith, because He did order the killing of the apostate. No matter how much you want to say that now things changed and now it’s the love, you are saying that at one point God was less loving, and more evil than in the present time, and at the time of Jesus somehow He realized that it’s better to do things a different way, and abolish all the laws and base everything on whatever everyone wants to do.
Now of course a person by the name Paul came later and claimed many things which did not align with the message of Jesus. However the people were fooled by satan to call him a man of God, and to use the excuse WHY WOULD THIS MAN WHO WAS A KILLER OF CHRISTIANS NOW TURN TO CHRIST, WHY WOULD HE LIE? Such people who claim or use such as proof really have no understanding of real life and the drives of man can go past beyond the love of life and sacrifice.
***
-As far as i understand, Islam does not have the concept of freedom of faith. Either you are stay a Muslim, either you are a dead person - or in some "mercyfull" situations, you can be exiled or put into jail.
As far as you understand is not based on any proof, you speak only of what you have seen on tv and what experiences you might have had, and anyone can say that.
Allah says in the quran 2:256 There is no compulsion in faith, truth is discerned from falsehood.
No one is compelled to become a Muslim, so everyone is able to search for the truth or practice his or her faith.
As a Muslim if you were born and brought up as a Muslim, and you know Islam, you really have to be an evil doer to give up Islam to go from purity to impurity, from worshiping God to worshiping others than Him, from morality to immorality. One may say well Christians are moral. I will use your rational on this point: look at America, they all began as Christians and slowly one by one, because according to you and them freedom of people to do what ever they want with faith, and in that same time with the legislation that govern life (and of course the decay of faith began with people making the separation between state and church – Islam is not just a matter of personal faith, but a matter of society), one by one they allowed not only disbelief but immorality to creep in the life of people. The Muslims will never allow that. No one in their right mind, and spirit will leave Islam unless they are disobedient to God. If they do leave they will spread their ideas to those weak to those who have no knowledge, fool them and incite them to their ideas, and for the greater good of things, just like God ordered it in your Bible the issue of apostasy and it’s punishment comes up. I was in Africa and saw what Christian missionaries do to uneducated Muslims. They fool them. I mean with all due respect look at the way you approached this issue (it was the same way that they work), not by showing me the truth of your faith and proofs of it, but trying to emotionally attack me and show that my faith is evil and it is the same way that the missionaries have done it, but the ones firmly grounded in knowledge will never be fooled, however weak people might, and the scholars will always be there to refute the lies, to explain and to stop the disease from spreading in the society. You did not come to me and show me that your Bible or your doctrines are the ones of God, but you did come and attack my faith and try to give me one ended questions that would appeal to my emotions. Every day I have people doing this and I fell very sad.
Freedom of faith is a vast term that has to be defined and analyzed in context. To you it means something else than to me.
-So, Islamic faith is not a matter of conviction or revelation, but is a matter of fear, or terror. Could you explain it better in other words? The believer has not only the punishement of God for his apostasy, but he is punished by his people.
Faith in Islam is a matter of conviction and a search for truth, that is why every day we pray in our prayers SHOW US THE RIGHT PATH. It is not a matter of terror or fear, no firm believing Muslim is terrorized by Islam. No one. How ever we do fear God, as much as we love Him. The apostate is not punished by the people but he is punished by God’s law in this life and a greater punishment in the hear after. The punishment in this life as I said just like in YOUR BIBLE is to keep the corruption from spreading and to keep faith pure for God. Just as in Deut 13 it says that IF YOU FIND YOUR BROTHER WORSHIPING AN GOD THAT YOU NEVER HEARD OF, A NEW GOD, OTHER THAN GOD, that person is killed. (again I want to emphasize here that it was your scripture from what you believe to be from God that said this way before prophet Muhammad came on earth, and as the Quran says you were sent to confirm some of the message that was given before you, so prophet Muhammad only confirmed what you call terror and lack of religion freedom that your prophet Moses and Jesus upheld).
-You say that ALL the prophets including Jesus sustain this idea of punishment for the apostasy.
I know that Jesus said: LOVE your enemy, bless those who is hurting you.
And he said more: IF someone wants to follow me, he take his cross and follow me.
Can you provide me a single verse where Jesus as a prophet, is agreeing to the opinion of killing people that commit apostasy or killing non-believers?
The issue of loving your enemy or carry your cross has nothing to do with what we are talking. You are diverting the topic. Jesus in Mathew 5 upheld the law and told that whoever teaches otherwise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven (that is probably Paul and those who follow him – great history lesson on how Pauline Christiantiy came to be so popular due to the rule of Constantin).
Now someone might use the proof here of the adulteress woman, but however by divine justice again, God showed us that such as story is made up as you can see by the agreement of the majority of scholars that such a story was interpolated in the bible. (by the way this is one proof for why I deny to take the Bible as fully the word of God).
New International Version (1973). "The most reliable early manuscripts omit John 7:53-8:11." Later editions of the NIV have, "The earliest and most reliable manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53-8:11.
So yes I can provide you with the verse of the old testament of Deut 13 again that says to kill the apostate and the verse in Mat 5 where Jesus says to uphold the law and agreeing to all that is in it. Jesus did not come to abolish the law that is why at the end of Mat 5 he says that IF YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS DOES NOT EXCEED THAT OF THE PHARISEES YOU WILL NOT ENTER THE KINGDOOM, becaue they Pharisees were hypocrites. They enjoyed the law on everyone else but did not do it themselves, they were void of any spirituatlity and took out the essence of faith and reduced it to law alone. Faith and law are part of the same one corpus and cannot be one without the other. (OF COURSE PAUL WENT ON THE OTHER EXTREMEN AND WAS ONLY FAITH AND NO LAW).
-(We do not talk about the Divine punishment at the end of times, but of people that persecute other people because of their beliefs).
People who persecute people will be accountable to God. In the Quran God says that persecution is worse that murder. No one is allowed to persecute anyone. The only one who is allowed to enforce any laws are those qualified to do that under a state and under proof, and not of their own desires.
If you refer to the punishment for the apostasy as persecution than again I say to you YOUR SCRIPTURE ORDERED PERSECUTION (according to what you reason) and you are not ready to admit it and believe in it, but yet even though the same law is present in your scripture you only attack Islam on it, and you call Islam intolerant and insensitive. So reasoning and let’s say that Islam is what you claim, that according to your rational, your faith was intolerant and insensitive about 2000 years earlier than mine, and as proven from above it still is.
***
-First, I put you another question:
Do you believe that the OLD Testament is inspired by God?
If yes, pls. motivate.
If no, pls. motivate.
I do believe what the Quran says and prophet Muhammad told us, why? Based on proof. The Quran tells us that prophet Moses received the message, and prophet Jesus and many other prophets, but their messages were slowly distorted. The Quran came to show the criteria as to what is correct and what is not in those scriptures. If you do a thorough research on the history of the old and new testament you will know what I’m talking about. So as prophet Muhammad said, do not believe in it but don’t disbelieve in it, because you don’t know what is truth and what is not.
It makes no difference wether it is Old or New testament we are talking about however I will give you my proof for the new one since that’s the one that really poses a great difference, greater than the old, and of course you as a Christian take both as the word of God and part of the same bible.
As I have quoted the issue of the interpolation of the story of Jesus and the adulteress woman, which Christians use as a big proof for putting aside laws, interpolation only means that the word of man was introduced into the word of God for some reason or other, and I am sure the reason was not good. I can give you another very strong example as most of the other ones even though present a clear proof that the message was tempered with do not stand in front of the doctrinal difference which makes a follower of the trinity away from God, and that is the issue of associating partners with God. In 1st John 5 we read for there are 3 that bear witness in heaven, the Father the son and the Holly Ghost, and these three are one. This is a huge interpolation and huge attempt to proof the divinity of Jesus and that of the trinity, however again by divine justice the falsehood was exposed as an interpolation
Peake's Commentary on the Bible says
"The famous interpolation after 'three witnesses' is not printed even in RSVn, and rightly. It cites the heavenly testimony of the Father, the logos, and the Holy Spirit, but is never used in the early Trinitarian controversies. No respectable Greek MS contains it. Appearing first in a late 4th-cent. Latin text, it entered the Vulgate and finally the NT of Erasmus."
Christianity diverted from the woship of God only that is given in the 1st COMMANDMENT while Islam stuck to it, and brought people back to it after a wave of darkness and polytheism was dominating earth. No matter how much one tries to proof the divinity of Jesus one will not be able and at the same time they would be lying to themselves.
-Now, answering your question: supposing that Jesus was just a prophet. If Jesus came and said: all the law and the prophets are reduced to these: "Love God from all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself", is this meaning that God sent a prophet that contradicts all that God said in the past years to Moise?
That is exactly what I am saying. Jesus never came and said that the laws were reduced to this. PLEASE PROVIDE YOUR PROOF IF YOU ARE TRUTHFULL. He did come and bring people back to love, and to the spirit of faith, rather that to the deviation of the people who only looked at law. He talked about love of neighbours, same as prophet Muhammad talked about it and said you WILL NOT BELIEVE UNTILL YOU LOVE ONE ANOTHER. THE LOVE OF GOD IS THE GREATEST LOVE, AND THE LOVE OF THOSE WHO GOD LOVES AND THE LOVE OF THE POOR AND THE LOVE OF THE ORPHANS AND FREEING SLAVES AND TAKING CARE OF THE WIDOWS. That is what I’m trying to tell you they all came with these loving messages but they did not abolish the law of God when transgressors transgressed it. Each law and each love message has it’s proper place and when one or the other are abandoned only chaos and immorality will arise either that people will only be enforcing laws and hypocricy will prevail, or that people will only care about the spirit and will neglect God’s commandments and evil will prevail as it does today.
-So, either Moise is a false prophet, either Jesus is a false prophet, because, their teachings are somehow opposite.
More than that. If both are good prophets, then is this meaning that God himself is contradictory?
As I said the contradiction is more likely in the understanding that Christians or followers of Paul have. The message of the so called New Testament of today even though originating from the message of Jesus has so much addition of man made ideas and ignorance that it has contradicted the law of Moses, which leaves you with to dwell into the depth of your own question: which one contradicted the other? Which one is the truth? Who is right? Moses, Abraham, Adam, Noah, and all the prophets by the thousands, or Paul?
Also maybe you have to question yourself and move away from the assumption that you are reading the word of God, and ask yourself is it really the word of God? What is the proof for it?
-There is more: here comes the prophet Mohammed, that re-establish the law: eye-for-an-eye, love only those who love you, etc. What is this? God is not yet decided what to do with the mankind? He send Moise, he send Jesus, and now Mahommed again. What am I suppose to understand from this: God does not know exactly what is the best way for humanity? Is like someone is telling me: "The cat is black, noo... is white. Waite! I decided: is black!" Hummm....
I would like to know your opinion about these questions.
Prophet Muhammad did not come to re-establish the law eye for an eye. The Jews who did not agree with Paul (and of course they were all Jews for Christianity is a new invention and not even Jesus called himself a Christian (the so called pillar of the faith is not even a Christian)), they upheld that law and still believe in it till today. So prophet Muhammad did not come and re establish but confirmed the truth of what was before him. LOVE ONLY THOSE WHO LOVE YOU IS NOT WHAT PROPHET MUHAMMAD TAUGHT BUT HE TAUGHT TO LOVE GOD AND HIS MESSENGERS AND THE TRUTH AND RIGHTEOUSNESS AND NOT SIN AND TRANSGRESSORS AND TO LOVE PARENTS, AND POOR PEOPLE, AND THOSE WHO GOD LOVES AND FAR ABOVE ANYTHING NOT TO GIVE THEIR LOVE TO OTHER GODS BUT TO FULLY SURRENDER THEIR LOVE TO GOD ALONE. THAT IS WHAT PROPHET MUHAMMAD TAUGHT (which shows that you did not yet grasped or maybe not even looked at his teachings).
God knows exactly what is best for humanity that is why he gave these laws. That is exactly why we should follow them even though we find them harsh. The same rational of your question is turned on you as it refutes you as God first give the law of apostasy and then he changes his mind on it, so WHAT GOD DOES NOT KNOW EXACLTY WHAT IS THE BEST WAY FOR HUMANITY? He has to change his mind? For thousands of years he keeps them under one law and later after thousands of prophets and millions of people follow that law, all of a sudden BHUFFF it’s gone with the wind, and all those prophets and people were following to quote you” an intolerant, no freedom of faith” religion?
THE CAT WILL ALWAYS BE WHITE, IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN. GOD WAS ALWAYS ONE AND EVERYONE BELIEVE IN THAT, NO ONE FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS FOR AS LONG ANS THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH EXIST EVER CAME WITH THE CONCEPT OF A TRINITY, A GOD SON WHO IS GOD BUT NOT THE FATHER, RATHER IT IS THE SON WHICH IS PART OF THE SAME GODNESS. No one ever came with such a concept not even Jesus himself whom you worship, never ever claimed that, never ever asked to be worshiped, never ever taught such concepts. SO THE CAT WILL ALWAYS BE WHITE BUT SOME HAVE ATTEMTED OVER THE YEARS TO STAIN IT WITH BLACK SPOTS.
***
-A man that is searching for the Truth is a man honest with himself first of all, is a man that does not FEAR to change his direction if he finds the truth, whatever that truth may be.
Can you find the Truth when you fear? Can you find the Truth when someone is telling you this is what you are obliged to believe? That you have to be a "muslim"-esclave of God or you better die?
As I said the truth is very clear from falsehood but people insist on following falsehood and their own desires. No matter how much proof you can bring to them, even from their own scriptures they will only follow what seems good to them, which can be seen in the topic of our conversation. You condemn Islam for the punishment of apostasy when it exists in your own scriptures and your own God gave it as a law at some point in time (AND IT’S IRRELEVANT WHETHER YOU APPLY IT NOW OR JUST BRUSH IT ASIDE AS IT HAS BEEN SUBSTITUTED BY LOVE), - the punishment was there and it’s the end of discussion. No one can oblige anyone to believe. If a Muslim wants to leave their faith, they can, they don’t have to tell anyone, they can do whatever they want, and keep it in their heart, and of course be hypocrites but no one will harm them. But as soon as they wash it in people’s faces and start causing corruption, now they have crossed their own sphere in to that of society and Islam will stop that. That person can move to lands where they can practice their faith freely, they can leave the Muslim lands and go to where ever they want. No one is telling you to believe what they want, the truth is so clear. As I said only someone with a very weak mind and a weak soul and a very evil desire would leave Islam, and I’m not talking about the practice of Islam only but to leave God and go to someone else. Being enslaved to God is a choice and an honor (because it’s not the slavery you think about, but the servitude of the most High ) not something forced upon. No one can force anyone, but they can stop them from spreading false ideas and evil. That is what the law of apostasy does, and that is exactly what it did during the time of the prophets of old and I do encourage you to review the history and the scriptures to see many other examples of God ordering his prophets to put an end to the corruption of those who have left the way of God. All I ask you is to be truthful to yourself and the proof.
-The Truth, in my opinion, can only be found where there is liberty of thinking and of faith. Jesus, the prophet preached this liberty. In the story of the lost son, he tells about the younger son of a father. This son decides to take his money and live his life as he wish. But soon, he find himself in a deplorable situation and decides to go back home to his father. Yes, he was in error, but his father did not hate it him for that, did not sent his servants to bring him home by force. He let him live his life and realize by himself if what is good and what is wrong in his life. When the son came home, the father did not argued with him: why did u do that, why did u do the other! He was just happy to welcome him and to give him back his wealth.
Truth seeking is part of the daily lives of the Muslims. They always seek truth, but they do not and no sensible men would seek the truth with polytheism. Jesus did not preach the liberty of people worshiping god’s other than the true God. I ask you to BRING YOUR PROOF IF YOU ARE TRUTHFULL.
I am sorry but the whole point of the story of the son is that he did come back home, where as an apostate does not come back but he insists in his disobedience of his or her FATHER (if you want to apply the story terms). God does not hate a person for being in error, or straying, He actually loves the most when his servants repent to Him, as He says in the Quran AND GOD LOVES THOSE WHO ASK HIM FOR FORGIVNESS. Anyone can be like the son in the parable and stray and go out and seek, and look for truth, but the whole point is that if they are sincere they will come back home. Many have strayed and many have returned home, and only the ones who have gone into the evil of their straying and have become arrogant have never come back home and most likely will never come back. The parable can be compared to the struggle of the heart to find truth, which is an internal struggle. The return home is the realization of the truth and straying from it. No, the father did not send his servants after him, but the son did not hurt the father or anyone else, nor did he wipe in their face or preached to them or go and attack his father and family saying that they are evil and wrong, and that they should follow him with no proof what so ever. That is what an apostate who would get the death penalty would have to do, to go against the state, to spread his ideas, to corrupt the land, but if he or she decides to leave, no one will go after them, no one will attack them, no one will even know. I hope you understand this, and I think the parable you gave is a perfect proof for my point. In a narration of the prophet he said that God said (I’m paraphrasing): THE PEOPLE’S EVIL ASCENDS TO ME DAY AND NIGHT WHILE MY MERCY DESCENDS TO THEM, THEY INSLUT ME WHILE I BlESS THEM. WHENEVER THEY TURN AWAY FROM ME I COME TO THEM AND ASK THEM; WHERE ARE YOU GOING? IS THERE ANY OTHER GOD THAN ME? IF THEY COME BACK TO ME I WAIT FOR THEM. AS FOR THOSE WHO REPENT I LOVE THEM.
God is waiting for His people with open arms every second, all they have to do is ask of Him only, and He will forgive them. BY THE MIGHT AND POWER IF THEY ASK ME I WILL FORGIVE THEM.
-So, do you truly believe that in force, in fear, in totalitarism and in terror you can find the Truth?
I doubt this very much. In fear you find only fear. In fear you find only the need to conserve the state of "well" because you fear the worst.
How can you pretend to have the truth in Islam that promotes fear? That punishes all the one who dears to think for himself? That punishes the one that is searching the Truth?
I believe in anything that God has revealed once established to be from God. Questioning it’s validity based on that you find it cruel and promoting fear, well that’s your weakness and not mine. I already showed you that we are in the same bowl, only that I submit to what God said and do not brush it away as an OLD thing, while you think you know better and follow Paul who said the law was dealt with. Islam does not promote but a fear of God, a fear of being separated from God and a fear of being away from the love of God, and a fear of being punished by God. It is a good fear a, which will save people when Love just isn’t enough. When a men is is intoxicated by lust or by other attractions and he is about to commit a sin, even though he loves his wife with all his heart (and that never stopped anyone, or even that he loves God – that never stopped Catholic priest from raping altar boys) that fear of God and of His punishment is what will keep one balanced. We love God with all our hearts but we also fear Him with all our hearts. Love and Fear are like the two wings of a bird, without either or the bird will not be able to fly. And after saying all that, the Muslim is always conforted by knowing that God is THE MOST MERCIFUL which is repeated over and over and reassures us that God will always forgive us as long as we seek Him.
I do not pretend I have the truth. It is not about me, it is about WHAT IS THE TRUTH? You have to ask yourself that question. What are you basing your faith on? On yourself? God never punishes one that is searching the truth, God punishes only those who leave HIM and go to spread corruption in the land.
***
"As Muslims we condemn people who take justice in their hands, we condemn people who brutalize and kill innocent people, and no one is allowed to take the law into their own hands, first and foremost if there is no Islamic state and no khalifa, no judges and people of knowledge to decide the validity of the condemnation and the proper punishment."
-You better say: Some Muslims condemn other Muslims for taking the justice in their hands. Still, if there was an Islamic State or khalifia, this terror could be more justified, isn’t it?
Still, there are innocent people that die in the name of Allah, there are people that are not being allowed to search for the Truth, because they fear death or terror. Why? And how an Islamic state or khalifia could change this situation?
How? By legalizing all this atrocities?
If there would be an Islamic state there would be no pornography, no prostitution, no alcohol, no molestation and degradation of women in public and private, on tv and music videos, in magazines and in the strip clubs. There would be no disrespect of elderly and no interest business which have destroyed the world and are responsible for the economical recession where YOU ARE NOT SUFFERING but the ones in Africa and India in the slums are suffering because we as Westerners love to have their credit cards, and cars on interest loans, and house loans, and I don’t know what else that we don’t need. Where guess what, we don’t even think about the other ones when we swipe. We don’t eve think about the other when we buy our diamond rings and earrings, that most likely someone’s hand was cut off for that diamond. We only think of our little LOVI DOVI selves and our faith and what ever BELONGS TO CESAR SHOULD BE GIVEN TO CESAR AND WHAT EVER IS TO GOD SHOULD BE TO GOD, and with a simple irrational sentence people did not care anymore about economics as part of faith, but only about LOVE, and that made way for oppression in the field of economics which lead to oppression on almost every level. But if an ISLAMIC state would be there, such things would never happen.
If there would be an Islamic state there would be no terror, no terrorists, no people taking matters into their own hands without knowledge, there would be no oppression and everyone would be able to see the light of God. That is why over the history Christians and Jews preferred to live under Muslim rule rather than their own people’s ruler. The fact that there are millions of Christians today in the Middle East is a proof that Muslims took care of them and at the same time respected them (Yes I know there were bad apples, but there are on every tree).
Some Muslims, those who are on the truth and follow the Word of God and the example of the prophet, they condemn injustice and oppression. And having said that I will not be the first to condemn and I hope you join me in this, THE USA who claims many things, (George Bush a so called good Christian declared a crusade on Iraq, advised by his good religious protestant Baptist leaders), is and has been the biggest terrorist in the world, forcing their western ideologies and aspirations to everyone, and whoever does not accept it they call them enemies of freedom, and enemies of humanity and kill them. They killed two cities of Japanese women, men and children in a few hours at Hiroshima and Nagasaki and continue to do such everywhere they go, but of course they DO IT IN THE NAME OF FREEDOM AND GOOD, and just like history repeating itself, they demonize and dehumanize whoever they attack so that they get the support of all the people who get fooled by the magic box (the TV) and its news – which counts for most people. History repeats itself because they have done so to the native Indians and they have done so to the blacks, they have done so to everyone they fought with and they are doing it to the Muslims and everyone is following them, and it’s sad. So join me in condemning the so-called liberal freedom-loving place south of Canada. Terrorism is terrorism and Muslims hate terrorism of innocent people.
If there would be an Islamic state, the world would be a better place, but most are not scared of Islam, they are scared of living without their strip clubs, and without their alcohol and without their fake money and without being able to steal and corrupt and even kill and sometimes easily getting away.
If there would be an Islamic state the world would be a better place.
Now getting to the gist of it. You need to pray and ask God for what He wants of you not what you want of you. As I said in one of my e-mails. First and foremost you need to find the truth and not what you want to find but what God wants you to find. Your problem is not the apostasy law (which is also in your scriptures) but your problem is that you don’t know what is the truth. Let’s say hypothetically speaking that the Old Testament was still enforced, you would have to agree and support that law of apostasy and not just that, but love it and believe that it’s the best thing, because it comes from God ant it is God’s word. So you see the problem is not terrorism or shariah law, or fear, it is faith and belief. If God were to ask you to stand on one leg for the rest of your life, it does not matter whether you like it or not you should obey it because He said it. You need to find out whether what you believe is really what God said. Once you can prove to yourself beyond the shadow of a doubt that your are following God’s word and not what you believe to be the truth, then you have submitted to God and have obeyed Him.
I invite you to read the Quran, as it is the proof for Islam. I invite you to speak to Muslims and to go to a mosque and ask a scholar questions about Islam. I invite you to pray and to ask God for the truth and for guidance. If you are on the truth, nothing wrong will happen. If you are not, you should accept the truth, no matter what consequences.
I do pray that God will guide you and I do apologize if in any of my writing I have been a bit strong and I hope I did not offend you. It was not my intention. You just try to imagine how I feel when I get e-mails from people accusing the faith that I love more than my own self to be a cruel and unjust faith. I hope you accept my apology if I upset you, and I hope you will consider what I wrote. And if anything good came from this it is from God, and anything bad it’s from me, and all praise is due to God.
-I understand of this, that Islamic religion (which is the same with the Islamic state) allows executions for apostasy, as being a command of God.
That is exactly what we have to understand. Once God decides something to question His decision based on our emotional attitude towards His rulings it is a contradiction. Once God establishes something there is not room for questioning it, so your problem is not really the issue of apostasy but the issue that you do not believe in God’s law, which Jesus upheld when he said in Matt 5
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
So your problem is not with the law, but with obeying it. I do have one question. You do agree with the law in Deut 13 about the apostates and the killing of them? My question and my proof here is not to debate you over what Christianity as a doctrine or your personal understanding of Christianity says, but over what you believe to be the text and word of God, and regardless of what I believe of the Bible (and that would require hours of discussion). By divine Justice the Christians do not even follow the proofs from their book. Going back to Deut 13 please do answer me if you believe that God revealed it or not? By divine Justice it is still there to show that God at one point did reveal this and no matter how you want to go around this with appeals to emotion, calling Islam evil and intolerant and narrow and not allowing freedom of faith, I GO BACK TO MY ORIGINAL POINT I MADE IN MY FIRST E MAIL WHICH YOU IGNORED: The God you believe in (with Jesus being part of Him at the time this law was passed) was I guess according to your analogy and rational a intolerant and lacking freedom of faith, because He did order the killing of the apostate. No matter how much you want to say that now things changed and now it’s the love, you are saying that at one point God was less loving, and more evil than in the present time, and at the time of Jesus somehow He realized that it’s better to do things a different way, and abolish all the laws and base everything on whatever everyone wants to do.
Now of course a person by the name Paul came later and claimed many things which did not align with the message of Jesus. However the people were fooled by satan to call him a man of God, and to use the excuse WHY WOULD THIS MAN WHO WAS A KILLER OF CHRISTIANS NOW TURN TO CHRIST, WHY WOULD HE LIE? Such people who claim or use such as proof really have no understanding of real life and the drives of man can go past beyond the love of life and sacrifice.
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-As far as i understand, Islam does not have the concept of freedom of faith. Either you are stay a Muslim, either you are a dead person - or in some "mercyfull" situations, you can be exiled or put into jail.
As far as you understand is not based on any proof, you speak only of what you have seen on tv and what experiences you might have had, and anyone can say that.
Allah says in the quran 2:256 There is no compulsion in faith, truth is discerned from falsehood.
No one is compelled to become a Muslim, so everyone is able to search for the truth or practice his or her faith.
As a Muslim if you were born and brought up as a Muslim, and you know Islam, you really have to be an evil doer to give up Islam to go from purity to impurity, from worshiping God to worshiping others than Him, from morality to immorality. One may say well Christians are moral. I will use your rational on this point: look at America, they all began as Christians and slowly one by one, because according to you and them freedom of people to do what ever they want with faith, and in that same time with the legislation that govern life (and of course the decay of faith began with people making the separation between state and church – Islam is not just a matter of personal faith, but a matter of society), one by one they allowed not only disbelief but immorality to creep in the life of people. The Muslims will never allow that. No one in their right mind, and spirit will leave Islam unless they are disobedient to God. If they do leave they will spread their ideas to those weak to those who have no knowledge, fool them and incite them to their ideas, and for the greater good of things, just like God ordered it in your Bible the issue of apostasy and it’s punishment comes up. I was in Africa and saw what Christian missionaries do to uneducated Muslims. They fool them. I mean with all due respect look at the way you approached this issue (it was the same way that they work), not by showing me the truth of your faith and proofs of it, but trying to emotionally attack me and show that my faith is evil and it is the same way that the missionaries have done it, but the ones firmly grounded in knowledge will never be fooled, however weak people might, and the scholars will always be there to refute the lies, to explain and to stop the disease from spreading in the society. You did not come to me and show me that your Bible or your doctrines are the ones of God, but you did come and attack my faith and try to give me one ended questions that would appeal to my emotions. Every day I have people doing this and I fell very sad.
Freedom of faith is a vast term that has to be defined and analyzed in context. To you it means something else than to me.
-So, Islamic faith is not a matter of conviction or revelation, but is a matter of fear, or terror. Could you explain it better in other words? The believer has not only the punishement of God for his apostasy, but he is punished by his people.
Faith in Islam is a matter of conviction and a search for truth, that is why every day we pray in our prayers SHOW US THE RIGHT PATH. It is not a matter of terror or fear, no firm believing Muslim is terrorized by Islam. No one. How ever we do fear God, as much as we love Him. The apostate is not punished by the people but he is punished by God’s law in this life and a greater punishment in the hear after. The punishment in this life as I said just like in YOUR BIBLE is to keep the corruption from spreading and to keep faith pure for God. Just as in Deut 13 it says that IF YOU FIND YOUR BROTHER WORSHIPING AN GOD THAT YOU NEVER HEARD OF, A NEW GOD, OTHER THAN GOD, that person is killed. (again I want to emphasize here that it was your scripture from what you believe to be from God that said this way before prophet Muhammad came on earth, and as the Quran says you were sent to confirm some of the message that was given before you, so prophet Muhammad only confirmed what you call terror and lack of religion freedom that your prophet Moses and Jesus upheld).
-You say that ALL the prophets including Jesus sustain this idea of punishment for the apostasy.
I know that Jesus said: LOVE your enemy, bless those who is hurting you.
And he said more: IF someone wants to follow me, he take his cross and follow me.
Can you provide me a single verse where Jesus as a prophet, is agreeing to the opinion of killing people that commit apostasy or killing non-believers?
The issue of loving your enemy or carry your cross has nothing to do with what we are talking. You are diverting the topic. Jesus in Mathew 5 upheld the law and told that whoever teaches otherwise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven (that is probably Paul and those who follow him – great history lesson on how Pauline Christiantiy came to be so popular due to the rule of Constantin).
Now someone might use the proof here of the adulteress woman, but however by divine justice again, God showed us that such as story is made up as you can see by the agreement of the majority of scholars that such a story was interpolated in the bible. (by the way this is one proof for why I deny to take the Bible as fully the word of God).
New International Version (1973). "The most reliable early manuscripts omit John 7:53-8:11." Later editions of the NIV have, "The earliest and most reliable manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53-8:11.
So yes I can provide you with the verse of the old testament of Deut 13 again that says to kill the apostate and the verse in Mat 5 where Jesus says to uphold the law and agreeing to all that is in it. Jesus did not come to abolish the law that is why at the end of Mat 5 he says that IF YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS DOES NOT EXCEED THAT OF THE PHARISEES YOU WILL NOT ENTER THE KINGDOOM, becaue they Pharisees were hypocrites. They enjoyed the law on everyone else but did not do it themselves, they were void of any spirituatlity and took out the essence of faith and reduced it to law alone. Faith and law are part of the same one corpus and cannot be one without the other. (OF COURSE PAUL WENT ON THE OTHER EXTREMEN AND WAS ONLY FAITH AND NO LAW).
-(We do not talk about the Divine punishment at the end of times, but of people that persecute other people because of their beliefs).
People who persecute people will be accountable to God. In the Quran God says that persecution is worse that murder. No one is allowed to persecute anyone. The only one who is allowed to enforce any laws are those qualified to do that under a state and under proof, and not of their own desires.
If you refer to the punishment for the apostasy as persecution than again I say to you YOUR SCRIPTURE ORDERED PERSECUTION (according to what you reason) and you are not ready to admit it and believe in it, but yet even though the same law is present in your scripture you only attack Islam on it, and you call Islam intolerant and insensitive. So reasoning and let’s say that Islam is what you claim, that according to your rational, your faith was intolerant and insensitive about 2000 years earlier than mine, and as proven from above it still is.
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-First, I put you another question:
Do you believe that the OLD Testament is inspired by God?
If yes, pls. motivate.
If no, pls. motivate.
I do believe what the Quran says and prophet Muhammad told us, why? Based on proof. The Quran tells us that prophet Moses received the message, and prophet Jesus and many other prophets, but their messages were slowly distorted. The Quran came to show the criteria as to what is correct and what is not in those scriptures. If you do a thorough research on the history of the old and new testament you will know what I’m talking about. So as prophet Muhammad said, do not believe in it but don’t disbelieve in it, because you don’t know what is truth and what is not.
It makes no difference wether it is Old or New testament we are talking about however I will give you my proof for the new one since that’s the one that really poses a great difference, greater than the old, and of course you as a Christian take both as the word of God and part of the same bible.
As I have quoted the issue of the interpolation of the story of Jesus and the adulteress woman, which Christians use as a big proof for putting aside laws, interpolation only means that the word of man was introduced into the word of God for some reason or other, and I am sure the reason was not good. I can give you another very strong example as most of the other ones even though present a clear proof that the message was tempered with do not stand in front of the doctrinal difference which makes a follower of the trinity away from God, and that is the issue of associating partners with God. In 1st John 5 we read for there are 3 that bear witness in heaven, the Father the son and the Holly Ghost, and these three are one. This is a huge interpolation and huge attempt to proof the divinity of Jesus and that of the trinity, however again by divine justice the falsehood was exposed as an interpolation
Peake's Commentary on the Bible says
"The famous interpolation after 'three witnesses' is not printed even in RSVn, and rightly. It cites the heavenly testimony of the Father, the logos, and the Holy Spirit, but is never used in the early Trinitarian controversies. No respectable Greek MS contains it. Appearing first in a late 4th-cent. Latin text, it entered the Vulgate and finally the NT of Erasmus."
Christianity diverted from the woship of God only that is given in the 1st COMMANDMENT while Islam stuck to it, and brought people back to it after a wave of darkness and polytheism was dominating earth. No matter how much one tries to proof the divinity of Jesus one will not be able and at the same time they would be lying to themselves.
-Now, answering your question: supposing that Jesus was just a prophet. If Jesus came and said: all the law and the prophets are reduced to these: "Love God from all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself", is this meaning that God sent a prophet that contradicts all that God said in the past years to Moise?
That is exactly what I am saying. Jesus never came and said that the laws were reduced to this. PLEASE PROVIDE YOUR PROOF IF YOU ARE TRUTHFULL. He did come and bring people back to love, and to the spirit of faith, rather that to the deviation of the people who only looked at law. He talked about love of neighbours, same as prophet Muhammad talked about it and said you WILL NOT BELIEVE UNTILL YOU LOVE ONE ANOTHER. THE LOVE OF GOD IS THE GREATEST LOVE, AND THE LOVE OF THOSE WHO GOD LOVES AND THE LOVE OF THE POOR AND THE LOVE OF THE ORPHANS AND FREEING SLAVES AND TAKING CARE OF THE WIDOWS. That is what I’m trying to tell you they all came with these loving messages but they did not abolish the law of God when transgressors transgressed it. Each law and each love message has it’s proper place and when one or the other are abandoned only chaos and immorality will arise either that people will only be enforcing laws and hypocricy will prevail, or that people will only care about the spirit and will neglect God’s commandments and evil will prevail as it does today.
-So, either Moise is a false prophet, either Jesus is a false prophet, because, their teachings are somehow opposite.
More than that. If both are good prophets, then is this meaning that God himself is contradictory?
As I said the contradiction is more likely in the understanding that Christians or followers of Paul have. The message of the so called New Testament of today even though originating from the message of Jesus has so much addition of man made ideas and ignorance that it has contradicted the law of Moses, which leaves you with to dwell into the depth of your own question: which one contradicted the other? Which one is the truth? Who is right? Moses, Abraham, Adam, Noah, and all the prophets by the thousands, or Paul?
Also maybe you have to question yourself and move away from the assumption that you are reading the word of God, and ask yourself is it really the word of God? What is the proof for it?
-There is more: here comes the prophet Mohammed, that re-establish the law: eye-for-an-eye, love only those who love you, etc. What is this? God is not yet decided what to do with the mankind? He send Moise, he send Jesus, and now Mahommed again. What am I suppose to understand from this: God does not know exactly what is the best way for humanity? Is like someone is telling me: "The cat is black, noo... is white. Waite! I decided: is black!" Hummm....
I would like to know your opinion about these questions.
Prophet Muhammad did not come to re-establish the law eye for an eye. The Jews who did not agree with Paul (and of course they were all Jews for Christianity is a new invention and not even Jesus called himself a Christian (the so called pillar of the faith is not even a Christian)), they upheld that law and still believe in it till today. So prophet Muhammad did not come and re establish but confirmed the truth of what was before him. LOVE ONLY THOSE WHO LOVE YOU IS NOT WHAT PROPHET MUHAMMAD TAUGHT BUT HE TAUGHT TO LOVE GOD AND HIS MESSENGERS AND THE TRUTH AND RIGHTEOUSNESS AND NOT SIN AND TRANSGRESSORS AND TO LOVE PARENTS, AND POOR PEOPLE, AND THOSE WHO GOD LOVES AND FAR ABOVE ANYTHING NOT TO GIVE THEIR LOVE TO OTHER GODS BUT TO FULLY SURRENDER THEIR LOVE TO GOD ALONE. THAT IS WHAT PROPHET MUHAMMAD TAUGHT (which shows that you did not yet grasped or maybe not even looked at his teachings).
God knows exactly what is best for humanity that is why he gave these laws. That is exactly why we should follow them even though we find them harsh. The same rational of your question is turned on you as it refutes you as God first give the law of apostasy and then he changes his mind on it, so WHAT GOD DOES NOT KNOW EXACLTY WHAT IS THE BEST WAY FOR HUMANITY? He has to change his mind? For thousands of years he keeps them under one law and later after thousands of prophets and millions of people follow that law, all of a sudden BHUFFF it’s gone with the wind, and all those prophets and people were following to quote you” an intolerant, no freedom of faith” religion?
THE CAT WILL ALWAYS BE WHITE, IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN. GOD WAS ALWAYS ONE AND EVERYONE BELIEVE IN THAT, NO ONE FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS FOR AS LONG ANS THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH EXIST EVER CAME WITH THE CONCEPT OF A TRINITY, A GOD SON WHO IS GOD BUT NOT THE FATHER, RATHER IT IS THE SON WHICH IS PART OF THE SAME GODNESS. No one ever came with such a concept not even Jesus himself whom you worship, never ever claimed that, never ever asked to be worshiped, never ever taught such concepts. SO THE CAT WILL ALWAYS BE WHITE BUT SOME HAVE ATTEMTED OVER THE YEARS TO STAIN IT WITH BLACK SPOTS.
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-A man that is searching for the Truth is a man honest with himself first of all, is a man that does not FEAR to change his direction if he finds the truth, whatever that truth may be.
Can you find the Truth when you fear? Can you find the Truth when someone is telling you this is what you are obliged to believe? That you have to be a "muslim"-esclave of God or you better die?
As I said the truth is very clear from falsehood but people insist on following falsehood and their own desires. No matter how much proof you can bring to them, even from their own scriptures they will only follow what seems good to them, which can be seen in the topic of our conversation. You condemn Islam for the punishment of apostasy when it exists in your own scriptures and your own God gave it as a law at some point in time (AND IT’S IRRELEVANT WHETHER YOU APPLY IT NOW OR JUST BRUSH IT ASIDE AS IT HAS BEEN SUBSTITUTED BY LOVE), - the punishment was there and it’s the end of discussion. No one can oblige anyone to believe. If a Muslim wants to leave their faith, they can, they don’t have to tell anyone, they can do whatever they want, and keep it in their heart, and of course be hypocrites but no one will harm them. But as soon as they wash it in people’s faces and start causing corruption, now they have crossed their own sphere in to that of society and Islam will stop that. That person can move to lands where they can practice their faith freely, they can leave the Muslim lands and go to where ever they want. No one is telling you to believe what they want, the truth is so clear. As I said only someone with a very weak mind and a weak soul and a very evil desire would leave Islam, and I’m not talking about the practice of Islam only but to leave God and go to someone else. Being enslaved to God is a choice and an honor (because it’s not the slavery you think about, but the servitude of the most High ) not something forced upon. No one can force anyone, but they can stop them from spreading false ideas and evil. That is what the law of apostasy does, and that is exactly what it did during the time of the prophets of old and I do encourage you to review the history and the scriptures to see many other examples of God ordering his prophets to put an end to the corruption of those who have left the way of God. All I ask you is to be truthful to yourself and the proof.
-The Truth, in my opinion, can only be found where there is liberty of thinking and of faith. Jesus, the prophet preached this liberty. In the story of the lost son, he tells about the younger son of a father. This son decides to take his money and live his life as he wish. But soon, he find himself in a deplorable situation and decides to go back home to his father. Yes, he was in error, but his father did not hate it him for that, did not sent his servants to bring him home by force. He let him live his life and realize by himself if what is good and what is wrong in his life. When the son came home, the father did not argued with him: why did u do that, why did u do the other! He was just happy to welcome him and to give him back his wealth.
Truth seeking is part of the daily lives of the Muslims. They always seek truth, but they do not and no sensible men would seek the truth with polytheism. Jesus did not preach the liberty of people worshiping god’s other than the true God. I ask you to BRING YOUR PROOF IF YOU ARE TRUTHFULL.
I am sorry but the whole point of the story of the son is that he did come back home, where as an apostate does not come back but he insists in his disobedience of his or her FATHER (if you want to apply the story terms). God does not hate a person for being in error, or straying, He actually loves the most when his servants repent to Him, as He says in the Quran AND GOD LOVES THOSE WHO ASK HIM FOR FORGIVNESS. Anyone can be like the son in the parable and stray and go out and seek, and look for truth, but the whole point is that if they are sincere they will come back home. Many have strayed and many have returned home, and only the ones who have gone into the evil of their straying and have become arrogant have never come back home and most likely will never come back. The parable can be compared to the struggle of the heart to find truth, which is an internal struggle. The return home is the realization of the truth and straying from it. No, the father did not send his servants after him, but the son did not hurt the father or anyone else, nor did he wipe in their face or preached to them or go and attack his father and family saying that they are evil and wrong, and that they should follow him with no proof what so ever. That is what an apostate who would get the death penalty would have to do, to go against the state, to spread his ideas, to corrupt the land, but if he or she decides to leave, no one will go after them, no one will attack them, no one will even know. I hope you understand this, and I think the parable you gave is a perfect proof for my point. In a narration of the prophet he said that God said (I’m paraphrasing): THE PEOPLE’S EVIL ASCENDS TO ME DAY AND NIGHT WHILE MY MERCY DESCENDS TO THEM, THEY INSLUT ME WHILE I BlESS THEM. WHENEVER THEY TURN AWAY FROM ME I COME TO THEM AND ASK THEM; WHERE ARE YOU GOING? IS THERE ANY OTHER GOD THAN ME? IF THEY COME BACK TO ME I WAIT FOR THEM. AS FOR THOSE WHO REPENT I LOVE THEM.
God is waiting for His people with open arms every second, all they have to do is ask of Him only, and He will forgive them. BY THE MIGHT AND POWER IF THEY ASK ME I WILL FORGIVE THEM.
-So, do you truly believe that in force, in fear, in totalitarism and in terror you can find the Truth?
I doubt this very much. In fear you find only fear. In fear you find only the need to conserve the state of "well" because you fear the worst.
How can you pretend to have the truth in Islam that promotes fear? That punishes all the one who dears to think for himself? That punishes the one that is searching the Truth?
I believe in anything that God has revealed once established to be from God. Questioning it’s validity based on that you find it cruel and promoting fear, well that’s your weakness and not mine. I already showed you that we are in the same bowl, only that I submit to what God said and do not brush it away as an OLD thing, while you think you know better and follow Paul who said the law was dealt with. Islam does not promote but a fear of God, a fear of being separated from God and a fear of being away from the love of God, and a fear of being punished by God. It is a good fear a, which will save people when Love just isn’t enough. When a men is is intoxicated by lust or by other attractions and he is about to commit a sin, even though he loves his wife with all his heart (and that never stopped anyone, or even that he loves God – that never stopped Catholic priest from raping altar boys) that fear of God and of His punishment is what will keep one balanced. We love God with all our hearts but we also fear Him with all our hearts. Love and Fear are like the two wings of a bird, without either or the bird will not be able to fly. And after saying all that, the Muslim is always conforted by knowing that God is THE MOST MERCIFUL which is repeated over and over and reassures us that God will always forgive us as long as we seek Him.
I do not pretend I have the truth. It is not about me, it is about WHAT IS THE TRUTH? You have to ask yourself that question. What are you basing your faith on? On yourself? God never punishes one that is searching the truth, God punishes only those who leave HIM and go to spread corruption in the land.
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"As Muslims we condemn people who take justice in their hands, we condemn people who brutalize and kill innocent people, and no one is allowed to take the law into their own hands, first and foremost if there is no Islamic state and no khalifa, no judges and people of knowledge to decide the validity of the condemnation and the proper punishment."
-You better say: Some Muslims condemn other Muslims for taking the justice in their hands. Still, if there was an Islamic State or khalifia, this terror could be more justified, isn’t it?
Still, there are innocent people that die in the name of Allah, there are people that are not being allowed to search for the Truth, because they fear death or terror. Why? And how an Islamic state or khalifia could change this situation?
How? By legalizing all this atrocities?
If there would be an Islamic state there would be no pornography, no prostitution, no alcohol, no molestation and degradation of women in public and private, on tv and music videos, in magazines and in the strip clubs. There would be no disrespect of elderly and no interest business which have destroyed the world and are responsible for the economical recession where YOU ARE NOT SUFFERING but the ones in Africa and India in the slums are suffering because we as Westerners love to have their credit cards, and cars on interest loans, and house loans, and I don’t know what else that we don’t need. Where guess what, we don’t even think about the other ones when we swipe. We don’t eve think about the other when we buy our diamond rings and earrings, that most likely someone’s hand was cut off for that diamond. We only think of our little LOVI DOVI selves and our faith and what ever BELONGS TO CESAR SHOULD BE GIVEN TO CESAR AND WHAT EVER IS TO GOD SHOULD BE TO GOD, and with a simple irrational sentence people did not care anymore about economics as part of faith, but only about LOVE, and that made way for oppression in the field of economics which lead to oppression on almost every level. But if an ISLAMIC state would be there, such things would never happen.
If there would be an Islamic state there would be no terror, no terrorists, no people taking matters into their own hands without knowledge, there would be no oppression and everyone would be able to see the light of God. That is why over the history Christians and Jews preferred to live under Muslim rule rather than their own people’s ruler. The fact that there are millions of Christians today in the Middle East is a proof that Muslims took care of them and at the same time respected them (Yes I know there were bad apples, but there are on every tree).
Some Muslims, those who are on the truth and follow the Word of God and the example of the prophet, they condemn injustice and oppression. And having said that I will not be the first to condemn and I hope you join me in this, THE USA who claims many things, (George Bush a so called good Christian declared a crusade on Iraq, advised by his good religious protestant Baptist leaders), is and has been the biggest terrorist in the world, forcing their western ideologies and aspirations to everyone, and whoever does not accept it they call them enemies of freedom, and enemies of humanity and kill them. They killed two cities of Japanese women, men and children in a few hours at Hiroshima and Nagasaki and continue to do such everywhere they go, but of course they DO IT IN THE NAME OF FREEDOM AND GOOD, and just like history repeating itself, they demonize and dehumanize whoever they attack so that they get the support of all the people who get fooled by the magic box (the TV) and its news – which counts for most people. History repeats itself because they have done so to the native Indians and they have done so to the blacks, they have done so to everyone they fought with and they are doing it to the Muslims and everyone is following them, and it’s sad. So join me in condemning the so-called liberal freedom-loving place south of Canada. Terrorism is terrorism and Muslims hate terrorism of innocent people.
If there would be an Islamic state, the world would be a better place, but most are not scared of Islam, they are scared of living without their strip clubs, and without their alcohol and without their fake money and without being able to steal and corrupt and even kill and sometimes easily getting away.
If there would be an Islamic state the world would be a better place.
Now getting to the gist of it. You need to pray and ask God for what He wants of you not what you want of you. As I said in one of my e-mails. First and foremost you need to find the truth and not what you want to find but what God wants you to find. Your problem is not the apostasy law (which is also in your scriptures) but your problem is that you don’t know what is the truth. Let’s say hypothetically speaking that the Old Testament was still enforced, you would have to agree and support that law of apostasy and not just that, but love it and believe that it’s the best thing, because it comes from God ant it is God’s word. So you see the problem is not terrorism or shariah law, or fear, it is faith and belief. If God were to ask you to stand on one leg for the rest of your life, it does not matter whether you like it or not you should obey it because He said it. You need to find out whether what you believe is really what God said. Once you can prove to yourself beyond the shadow of a doubt that your are following God’s word and not what you believe to be the truth, then you have submitted to God and have obeyed Him.
I invite you to read the Quran, as it is the proof for Islam. I invite you to speak to Muslims and to go to a mosque and ask a scholar questions about Islam. I invite you to pray and to ask God for the truth and for guidance. If you are on the truth, nothing wrong will happen. If you are not, you should accept the truth, no matter what consequences.
I do pray that God will guide you and I do apologize if in any of my writing I have been a bit strong and I hope I did not offend you. It was not my intention. You just try to imagine how I feel when I get e-mails from people accusing the faith that I love more than my own self to be a cruel and unjust faith. I hope you accept my apology if I upset you, and I hope you will consider what I wrote. And if anything good came from this it is from God, and anything bad it’s from me, and all praise is due to God.
Saturday, October 3, 2009
Apostasy?
One of the followers of youtube sent me a video with the execution of an apostate from Islam.
The video was a clip of the slaughtering of a man in Somalia most likely. The questioner asked me my opinion on this.
Here is my answer:
Peace be with you
No one is allowed to take the law into their hands. Executions can only be done under the command of the judge or khalifa of the Islamic state. Unfortunately due to ignorance of the Islamic law people take the law into their own hands, and they themselves are not accountable to the same law they enforce. However with regards to the video, I do not know the situation of that case, wether that person was judged or not, or wether those people who executed him were ruling and taking the law into their own hands, without a judge or scholar's approval.
However having said all that, the agreement of all the scholars in Islam is that an apostate is given the chance to repent, later he is talked to by someone with knowledge, and at the discretion of the judge he or she depending on the situation wether they are hostile to the state and the faith, wether they are trying to fight against the state (in islam there is no separation between faith and state), they either get exiled from the Muslim lands, or get the death penalty for treason, depending on the pros and cons of the action. Apostasy is paramount to treason which goes punished with death in most countries, or jail for life.
As we believe in all prophets we do not believe that Islam came up with this law, rather it was a law that was common to all prophets, and Islam did not invent it, nor did prophet Muhammad. Rather it was taken and passed on from previous prophets such as Moses and Jesus.
In the Bible in Deuteronomy 13 vs 6 we read
6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.
I do ask those who think of driving around the above verse as OLD LAW or OLD COVENANT to be rational and realize wether old or new, the law was there from the same God that we as Muslims believe in, and according to Christian doctrine, Jesus being the son and one of the 3 persons in the trinity and eternally present with the father before even in this world, He, Jesus if in congruity and full agreement with the Father, was part of the LEGISLATION OF KILLING THE APOSTATE at whatever time, for whatever law old or new.
I hope that helps with your answer.
As Muslims we believe in truth and only truth, and we do not distort the message of God, as the nations before us have done. The Quran is the final revelation to mankind, and the last chance for people to become straight with God. People have moved away from God's laws by mere manipulations of texts and doctrines invalidating what God never invalidated, just because of questioning God's justice.
As Muslims we condemn people who take justice in their hands, we condemn people who brutalize and kill innocent people, and no one is allowed to take the law into their own hands, first and foremost if there is no Islamic state and no khalifa, no judges and people of knowledge to decide the validity of the condemnation and the proper punishment. However it is no secret and as Muslims we are not apologetic for the fact that the punishment for apostasy in most cases in Islam is death.
And God knows best.
The video was a clip of the slaughtering of a man in Somalia most likely. The questioner asked me my opinion on this.
Here is my answer:
Peace be with you
No one is allowed to take the law into their hands. Executions can only be done under the command of the judge or khalifa of the Islamic state. Unfortunately due to ignorance of the Islamic law people take the law into their own hands, and they themselves are not accountable to the same law they enforce. However with regards to the video, I do not know the situation of that case, wether that person was judged or not, or wether those people who executed him were ruling and taking the law into their own hands, without a judge or scholar's approval.
However having said all that, the agreement of all the scholars in Islam is that an apostate is given the chance to repent, later he is talked to by someone with knowledge, and at the discretion of the judge he or she depending on the situation wether they are hostile to the state and the faith, wether they are trying to fight against the state (in islam there is no separation between faith and state), they either get exiled from the Muslim lands, or get the death penalty for treason, depending on the pros and cons of the action. Apostasy is paramount to treason which goes punished with death in most countries, or jail for life.
As we believe in all prophets we do not believe that Islam came up with this law, rather it was a law that was common to all prophets, and Islam did not invent it, nor did prophet Muhammad. Rather it was taken and passed on from previous prophets such as Moses and Jesus.
In the Bible in Deuteronomy 13 vs 6 we read
6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.
I do ask those who think of driving around the above verse as OLD LAW or OLD COVENANT to be rational and realize wether old or new, the law was there from the same God that we as Muslims believe in, and according to Christian doctrine, Jesus being the son and one of the 3 persons in the trinity and eternally present with the father before even in this world, He, Jesus if in congruity and full agreement with the Father, was part of the LEGISLATION OF KILLING THE APOSTATE at whatever time, for whatever law old or new.
I hope that helps with your answer.
As Muslims we believe in truth and only truth, and we do not distort the message of God, as the nations before us have done. The Quran is the final revelation to mankind, and the last chance for people to become straight with God. People have moved away from God's laws by mere manipulations of texts and doctrines invalidating what God never invalidated, just because of questioning God's justice.
As Muslims we condemn people who take justice in their hands, we condemn people who brutalize and kill innocent people, and no one is allowed to take the law into their own hands, first and foremost if there is no Islamic state and no khalifa, no judges and people of knowledge to decide the validity of the condemnation and the proper punishment. However it is no secret and as Muslims we are not apologetic for the fact that the punishment for apostasy in most cases in Islam is death.
And God knows best.
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